Hollygrope, and other creeps

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Tyrannohotep

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Hollygrope, and other creeps
« on: November 11, 2017, 09:18:48 PM »
George Takei Accused of Sexually Assaulting Former Model in 1981
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A former model and actor is accusing Star Trek icon George Takei of sexual assault in 1981. The accuser, Scott R. Brunton, who was 23 at the time of the alleged incident, claims that Takei took advantage of him when he was most vulnerable.

"This happened a long time ago, but I have never forgotten it," Brunton tells The Hollywood Reporter in an interview. "It is one of those stories you tell with a group of people when people are recounting bizarre instances in their lives, this always comes up. I have been telling it for years, but I am suddenly very nervous telling it."

Brunton says he was living in Hollywood in 1981, working as a waiter and beginning a career as a commercial actor and model when he met a 43- or 44-year-old Takei one evening at Greg's Blue Dot bar. The men exchanged numbers and would call one another from time to time as well as run into each other at clubs, Brunton says. When Brunton broke up with his then-boyfriend, he spoke with Takei. "He said, 'Let me know what your new number is' and I did. And not long after we broke up and I moved out, George called me," Brunton recalls.

Takei, as Brunton tells it, invited him to dinner and the theater. "He was very good at consoling me and understanding that I was upset and still in love with my boyfriend," Brunton says. "He was a great ear. He was very good about me spilling my heart on my sleeve."

The two men went back to the actor's condo for a drink the same night. "We have the drink and he asks if I would like another," Brunton recalls. "And I said sure. So, I have the second one, and then all of a sudden, I begin feeling very disoriented and dizzy, and I thought I was going to pass out. I said I need to sit down and he said sit over here and he had the giant yellow beanbag chair. So I sat down in that and leaned my head back and I must have passed out."

"The next thing I remember I was coming to and he had my pants down around my ankles and he was groping my crotch and trying to get my underwear off and feeling me up at the same time, trying to get his hands down my underwear," Brunton says. "I came to and said, 'What are you doing?!' I said, 'I don't want to do this.' He goes, 'You need to relax. I am just trying to make you comfortable. Get comfortable.' And I said, 'No. I don't want to do this.' And I pushed him off and he said, 'OK, fine.' And I said I am going to go and he said, 'If you feel you must. You're in no condition to drive.' I said, 'I don't care I want to go.' So I managed to get my pants up and compose myself and I was just shocked. I walked out and went to my car until I felt well enough to drive home, and that was that."

And this is only the latest and most shocking example I've learned about lately.

Seriously, what is with all these fucking gropers and other creeps in Hollywood? It's gotten to the point where I'm fearful that even the actors and other media personalities that I admire might be guilty of it. Who's next in line to be exposed?

But, it's not just showbiz that has this groper infestation. Even politicians in high places don't seem to be immune to this problem (e.g. Roy Moore and You-Know-Who). It's everywhere.

In fact, I myself got groped by a woman in an elevator one night in Chicago (her friend, who was standing by when it happened, claimed it was a harmless joke). At the time, while it was an unpleasant shock, it wasn't so traumatic as to scar me permanently. But if that kind of behavior the order of the day in some of the highest places in this country, it makes me worry about our larger culture. I would have thought most people would have been raised with enough common decency to understand that sexual assault is wrong, but apparently even the rich and famous among us haven't, despite all the education they would have been able to afford. This is basic shit we should have all learned before we were teens.

I'm just done with the fucking gropers. And the rapists, and all the other creepers in that category. But they will keep on groping. And raping. And so on...  >:(
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True Neutral

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 01:24:40 AM »
OK... First of all, very few have been charged, and pretty much none have been tried. (That will take a while.) Some are still under investigation. In some cases, there's little to no evidence or they're outside of the statute of limitations. We DO have a standard of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Allowing people to be tried and punished in the court of public opinion is how lynch mobs happen. Just getting that bit of obvious out of the way.

I'm a woman who has been subject to sexual violence far more serious than an unwanted pat on the bum, and I still firmly believe in innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, yes, even in cases of rape. Yes, even if it means that some people who are guilty go free due to lack of evidence because I'm NOT OK with jailing innocents. And I do NOT think either that there is some kind of epidemic of sexual violence or that a lewd comment is equal to an unwanted pat on the bum is equal to forcible penetration. I think it's being overhyped, sensationalized, and blown out of proportion and is leading to mob justice in the court of public opinion.

What DOES seem to be rampant? Rich and powerful people believing that laws do not apply to them. Affluenza, essentially.

But if one IS victimized, the best thing one can do is contact the POLICE, not the media, and as soon as possible after the assault occurs. So pretty much the opposite of what's going on. Mob mentalities do NOT help actual real-life victims. They just don't. All it takes is one false accuser trying to ride the fame train with a story that just doesn't hold up (think "Jackie from UVA" where there were no injuries when, according to the story, there should have been quite serious injuries, and the party she said it happened at never actually happened) and a bunch of real victims can be discredited. Also, if anyone DIDN'T know about the Hollywood casting couch, I'd be shocked. I was pretty sure that was common knowledge...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 01:31:33 AM by True Neutral »

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Jedi Knight Muse

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 08:19:00 AM »
Administrator warning: @Tyrannohotep, while I understand that you're upset about this, using the F bomb on Worldsmyths outside of the context of a piece of fictional writing is against the rules. Please refrain from further use of such strong swear words on the forum.

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As far as the article goes...I haven't read up on any of what's going on with it or whether or not George has denied it. But there's always two sides to every story, and you have to look at the source and not just follow what the media says and assume that it's true. I would be devastated if I found out one of my favorite celebrities was accused of assault and it was actually true, because I look up to them for a reason, so I definitely understand being upset about it. Has George made any kind of a public statement about it, or is it all just the media?

I've really only had a few incidents of sexual assault (one was physical- a clearly drunk customer grabbed my butt when I was at work- and the other has been more verbal than anything else) that I can think of, but it's not even close to being on the same level as what others have dealt with. I graduated from high school with a customer's son and he and I have known each other since pre-kindergarten so his father knows me because of that (this kid is NOT someone I'm friends with, though). His father has said really inappropriate things to me, like telling someone that was bagging for me that if he was younger and single he'd be married to me, or telling me he was going to get "all hot" or something because I took the hoodie I was wearing off (I can't even remember his exact words). The obviously drunk customer left the store before I could even try to get a manager, and no one actually witnessed it (there was a co-worker nearby but she wasn't watching near me).
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Tyrannohotep

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 11:30:40 AM »
As far as the article goes...I haven't read up on any of what's going on with it or whether or not George has denied it. But there's always two sides to every story, and you have to look at the source and not just follow what the media says and assume that it's true. I would be devastated if I found out one of my favorite celebrities was accused of assault and it was actually true, because I look up to them for a reason, so I definitely understand being upset about it. Has George made any kind of a public statement about it, or is it all just the media?
He posted on his Twitter that the incident "didn't occur". So yeah, we're going to have to await a fair trial for him.

There is the risk that some of these accusations against the various Hollywood personalities are false, and yes, we can't go arresting people until they've been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. On the other hand, I personally would be shocked if the vast majority of the men and women claiming victimization were lying simply to "ride the fame train". In the case of (apparent) repeat offenders like Harvey Weinstein, who have received accusations from multiple individuals who otherwise would have had little to do with each other besides working in the same industry, I find it improbable that all the accusers are lying. That would require some kind of conspiracy that's out to get him for some reason.

We may have to wait and see how many of these charges are true and how many are false. But in the event that most of them turn out to be true, it would suggest a serious "affluenza" problem with Hollywood culture.

BTW, sorry for the swearing. As you know, I was in an upset mood about this.
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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 11:34:43 AM »
I do no feel like saying much on this subject... but I would like to quickly point out I think True is a little closer to the mark. It is not so much a matter of available education. Creepers exist in all walks of life, and almost all have been made aware it may not be right at one point or another. It's a choice, and anyone can make it regardless of class, social standing, culture, etc.
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True Neutral

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 11:54:29 AM »
There is a difference between ONE accuser with no witnesses and dozens of accusers with witnesses (and even two of them there at the same time for the same incident). One of those two things is a LOT more likely to have occurred than the other. It's not to say that NOBODY ever gropes a single person with no witnesses, just that it's a LOT harder to prove and a lot more likely that cases where there's only one accusation and no evidence are going to be false accusers, overall. Not a comment on any specific individual case.

It's likely that they'll be able to prove something against Weinstein. It's within the statute of limitations, and there are multiple cases, so they'll pick one or two that have direct witnesses, maybe security footage, particularly credible accusers who will look good on the stand. The Takei case... It's REALLY old, and there's just one accuser and his friends who weren't there at the time of the alleged incident. It's unlikely that they'll file charges because of the statute of limitations (the Cosby case...most of them were outside of the statute of limitations, so they had to use the what...one I think...that was JUST within the statute of limitations at the time of filing), and even if they did, it would be almost impossible to prove in court. But if he didn't do it, he has every right, and even an obligation, to defend himself.

Also, I'd say that an adult woman who agreed to sleep with her boss for promotions isn't a victim. Equating her choice to sleep with her boss or potential boss with someone who was repeatedly forcibly raped as a child is sick and twisted. She could either accept less work and stand on morals, speak out IMMEDIATELY after the attempt happened, or leave the industry. The casting couch may be creepy when it applies to grown women who agree to it, but it isn't actually criminal unless it's either happening to someone too young to consent or it's being forced on someone against their consent.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 12:08:56 PM by True Neutral »

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 05:57:03 PM »
Honestly? It's always been a huge problem - it's just only in the last few years has it become slightly more okay to talk openly about. I have been a victim of sexual violence and aggression multiple times in my life... and I only know one woman who hasn't been sexually abused in some way.  That means that there is a disturbing high number of men who don't respect boundaries and don't care about consent. Regular, 'normal' men.

Regarding false allegations - obviously they do happen. But having been on the side of reporting a rape - going through that trauma, being blamed for what happened, being called a liar... I don't believe that most women would go through that if it wasn't true. I mean, the majority of rapes and sexual assaults are never reported because of the amount of blame that is still thrown at the victims. 1 accusation I can take with a pinch of salt, but multiple accusations? No, I have a very hard time believing that they would all lie. 

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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 06:24:05 PM »
Another general administrator note: so this topic is kind of leaning into the hot button/touchy topic category, which means we're going to keep an extensive eye on it and see how things go. The moment things get out of hand- which hopefully won't happen- we will shut this post down and lock it. I'm willing to let the conversation keep going for now, but just wanted to give a warning that we're going to be watching the discussion closely.

Anyway....

He posted on his Twitter that the incident "didn't occur". So yeah, we're going to have to await a fair trial for him.

God, I started reading the responses from people demanding evidence that he doesn't know the accuser and I just immediately closed it 'cause... >:( >:( >:(

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BTW, sorry for the swearing. As you know, I was in an upset mood about this.

Apology accepted. Totally understandable.

I do no feel like saying much on this subject... but I would like to quickly point out I think True is a little closer to the mark. It is not so much a matter of available education. Creepers exist in all walks of life, and almost all have been made aware it may not be right at one point or another. It's a choice, and anyone can make it regardless of class, social standing, culture, etc.

I agree with this 1,000%. Very well put.
1 accusation I can take with a pinch of salt, but multiple accusations? No, I have a very hard time believing that they would all lie. 

Exactly this. It was hard when the stuff with Bill Cosby was happening, because I mean...he's a role model. I mostly remember him for the JELL-O commercials when I was younger, but then Nick at Nite started doing the reruns of The Cosby Show and I would watch it. So it was definitely hard to hear about, but "easier" to believe with that grain of salt because of the fact that there was more than one person who came out with the accusations.
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Re: Hollygrope, and other creeps
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 06:11:22 AM »
I think the most important thing to do when stuff like this crops up is to try not to jump to a conclusion. Just because the media has said something, doesn't make it true, and the media is known for omitting things, and overembellishing (here in the UK our media LOVE to do that with people on benefits to make it an us vs them thing, so much people are avoiding food banks and claiming to avoid that stigma much to their detriment). So, just like with everything you should look at both sides, see what evidence there is, and take it from there.

Another thing is, a lot of these sorts of things are popping up right now. And that means yes more people might be more confident to finally get something off their chest and release their burdens. But the chances of people using it for malicious intent also becomes more prominent. It's so easy to destroy someone's life with some media slanging. I remember a case ages ago where the media blamed something on a guy (I think it was paedophilia), a lynch mob formed and he was suddenly homeless and jobless, friends deserted him, etc... And the media had it wrong. It wasn't him at all, he just happened to have the same name. And then that guy was left to pick up the pieces. You can't undo harm like that.

This case to me seems odd, I know Takei is very against these kind of things... it doesn't add up in my mind. But obviously, that won't stop me believing the accuser. Both parties are innocent until proven otherwise.

One thing that seemed odd was the fact he only wants an apology... Why go to the media if you just want an apology? If he couldn't get in contact with Takei for whatever reason, I bet if he had said to one of the people around him (like managers etc), look I believe I was assaulted by Takei a while ago and I just want a phonecall to talk about it. They would have let him, cause if they had said no to him he could have then replied that he was going to the media then. The people around him wouldn't have wanted the press to go into their frenzy over it. The accuser had the upper hand there.

I'm not so familiar with the US press, but aren't these shit reporters too? Like our Daily Mail;

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Something didn't seem right about the story, so I went and did a little research on it. The first two to report it were The Hollywood Reporter, FOX News and The Wrap. Coincidence? I think not

So like if you were going to go to the media... why not a good one which people will take seriously. Surely they'll all want the scoop on it...

So I did a little digging because I know of stories where people have been blacked out and act normal, or at least awake. I have read about one lady who even "woke up" during the night and ended up sleeping with her ex boyfriend who lived in a nearby apartment often because she was essentially sleepwalking. But he didn't realise and thought she was awake.

I found this site from either the original website or from twitter (I don't remember now)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/11/1714699/-Why-the-George-Takei-allegation-is-a-weak-case

And other people know of what I am on about too.
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There is a phenomenon involving alcohol where the person is to all appearances awake and in control, but is actually in a blackout.  Coming to oneself can be quite sudden, and people have been known to find themselves in situations to which they never would have consented while sober, but which they seemed to be strongly in favor of while in the blackout.

I’m not sure how common this is, but it does happen.  I can certainly attest from personal experience that my ex and I were sliding in and out of blackouts without the other being aware.

It made for some interesting arguments:  “But you said . . . “ “I never said that!”  and it took us a few years of sobriety to figure it all out.

All I’m saying here is that I wonder if this could be the explanation for Takei’s situation.  Not saying it is, not saying it isn’t, just I wonder.

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I have a close acquaintance who has been known to get black out drunk on occasion, who continues to interact with people as if awake, but has no later recollection.

Again, I am not saying this is a definite, but it does give a what if.

Another comment also pointed out something which is interesting;

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There’s another anomaly I am thinking of here… he is saying that Takei took advantage of emotional vulnerability, i.e. was supporting him in his grief for losing a relationship, like a good friend, then raped him.  Something like that really hurts because there is a greater aspect of betrayal.  It’s not something you are likely to bandy about in groups of people when the topic is “bizarre things” that happened in your life.

But on the other hand you can say Takei's tweets were just convenient that he doesn't remember him (although he is 80... and most likely met thousands of people), as that is an 'easy' way out of it.

I don't think it's an easy one to find out the truth either as it happened so long ago, and it's a he said/ he said thing. If he was acting awake then they both could be right, Takei could have done that but doesn't remember now, but the accuser has a different perspective of what happened.

Overall though at least one thing is clear, if Takei did it, when the guy made it clear he didn't want to do anything he stopped.

And if it is true then if it has happened to anyone else then hopefully they'll have the confidence to come forward. As with more accusors (and more evidence) it gives more weight and the truth is more likely to be found.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:13:17 AM by Sheepy-Pie »